Acadēmīa:Fabrica/Archive 1

blogger

Proposal: histologista

Reason: As discussed on Talk:blog with @Logodaedalus, histologista seems to be a very good choice. I would suggest, we should also add blogista in analogy to blōx. My only problem with using histologista/histologion would be that most people don't understand this world immediately. Jācōbus (talk) 11:10, 18 February 2023 (CET)

Thank you! I think that immediate understanding of a word is a secundary problem. The priority in my opinion is to use words with good roots. Logodaedalus (talk) 12:31, 18 February 2023 (CET)

I am also thinking about blōgista as an alternative. This fits to our suggestion blōx which is in my opinion a bit more intuitive. Any opinion to this? Jācōbus (talk) 13:24, 18 February 2023 (CET)

May I suggest blōgifex? Lūkās (talk) 15:09, 20 February 2023 (CET)

The analogy to words like artifex or opifex is immediately clear. However, I am not sure if it fits. With the suffix -fex (<facere) the craftsmanship is in the foreground, but does the management of a blog fall under craftmanship? Jācōbus (talk) 15:20, 20 February 2023 (CET)

Well, I would argue the act of blogging includes more craftsmanship than the work of a pontifex. There also appears to be Middle Latin sortifex (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sortifex#Latin), which has no connection to craftsmanship whatsoever, and New Latin already seems to have appropriated retifex (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/retifex#Latin) for a networker.

And isn't any skilful blogger to some degree a wordsmith? Lūkās (talk) 16:28, 20 February 2023 (CET)

You have at least convinced me to create an entry for sortifex and retifex. I think then that blōgifex no longer sounds so artificial. Let's wait and see if others want to comment it. Jācōbus (talk) 08:35, 21 February 2023 (CET)

Summary: blōgifex will be added. --Jācōbus (talk) 13:27, 26 February 2023 (CET)

Czechia

Proposal: Bohēmia or Cechia

Reason: That is a matter that I am still not sure how we are going to deal with. Some find "Czechia" problematic as a spelling and prefer Cechia (see the discussion on Reddit). I would also want to suggest taking that as an alternative. However, there are also those who prefer the name Bohēmia, although Bohemia is only a part of today's Czechia and had also included Germans, for example. Therefore, I want to hear your opinion on whether we should list Bohemia as an alternative vocabulary with the indication that it is actually misleading. So what is your opinion on this? Jācōbus (talk) 14:02, 20 February 2023 (CET)

In that regard, Czechia ultimately has the same issues as Bohemia, as it derives from the Czech name for Bohemia, Čechy; it is a pars pro toto either way. So I don’t see any harm in giving Bohemia as an alternative.

Vicipaedia’s main source for Cechia is modern (1997), the older sources given there use Čechia (note that č in Czech orthography replaced earlier cz, which Polish retained) or Czechia. Vicipaedia itself also later gives Czechia as the oldest spelling. So, I don’t really see precedent for Cechia beyond modern innovation.

While Hofmannus (1677) obviously couldn’t refer to the modern country, he supports the spelling Czechia under "Boëmia, vel Bohemia, vel Bœhemia": "Ejectis tandem è Boiohemo etiam Marcomannis Quadisque Sclavini Scythica & Barbara gens duce Czecho, intraverunt, Anno 550. quos ab occupato Boiohemo vulgus Bohemos vocat."

By the way, given the etymology (Boio -> Bo), are you sure it’s Bohēmia and not Bōhēmia or even Bōhemia? Although, as Greek uses Βοημία, Bohēmia does appear correct. Lūkās (talk) 15:03, 20 February 2023 (CET)

According to Wiktionary it is Bohēmia, although the alternative Boihaemum with long diphtongs does exist. It is still a problem for me, because Czechia is undoubtly the nation state of Czechs, whereas Bohemia denotes the feudal state. I think we can list both variants, but push Czechia further up. I also think we should add an option to the templates so that the IPA rendering is correct. Jācōbus (talk) 15:15, 20 February 2023 (CET)

I concur, Czechia should be the main entry, Bohēmia should be given as a secondary option.

Regarding Czechia: I am aware that the pronunciations are auto-generated and cannot, at the moment, be changed or removed individually. Nonetheless, the given pronunciations for Czechia appear to be incorrect (and hardly pronounceable):

(Classical) IPA(key): /ˈkze.kʰi.a/, [ˈkd̪͡z̪ɛkʰiä]

(Ecclesiastical) IPA(key): /ˈkd͡ze.ki.a/, [ˈkd̪͡z̪ɛːkiä]

While any classical pronunciation is obviously hypothetical, <cz> was evidently meant to transcribe a Slavic sound that could not be represented accurately otherwise within the German traditional pronunciation of Latin. Czechia is not an isolated use of that spelling. Other examples I could find at Hofmannus include czar (tsar), Czernobela (Chernobyl) and Czenstochova (Polish Częstochowa, German Czenstochau/Tschenstochau). In the latter two, as well as Czechia, it appears to represent /t͡ʃ/ or /t͡ʂ/, in czar it appears to correspond to /t͡s/.

While common sense makes for a weak argument and I lack hard evidence for this (since ecclesiastical pronunciation isn't well-defined in this regard), I would expect ecclesiastical Latin to, in practice, use /t͡ʃ/ in this case. It is a phoneme that is already used in ecclesiastical Latin and it corresponds to the original intention.

As for classical pronunciation, I am at a loss. Since it is entirely hypothetical, I would suggest to either give none or to opt for a reasonable approximation and append it with an asterisk. Lūkās (talk) 16:18, 20 February 2023 (CET)

I made an amendment to Czechia. You can take a look and tell me your opinion. Basically I told the program to interpret "Czechia" as "Csechia". Jācōbus (talk) 13:58, 21 February 2023 (CET)

Sea lion

Proposal: Ōtaria Ōtarium

Reason: Derived from Ancient Greek. It is already in use in many Romance languages (French otarie, Italian otaria) Jācōbus (talk) 02:10, 23 February 2023 (CET)

I think, it actually has to be Ōtarium, since the word is neuter in Greek. Jācōbus (talk) 13:09, 24 February 2023 (CET)

Penguin

Proposal: Pinguinus Pinguīnus

Reason: According to Pons, spheniscus means Penguin, but this is acutally not true, since sphenisci are a genus of penguins. There is a bird called Pinguinus impennis (who is actually not related to Penguins), but we can still use this vocabulary. Jācōbus (talk) 02:14, 23 February 2023 (CET)

It’s pinguīnus.

There’s also aptenodytes but it has the same problems of spheniscus. Logodaedalus (talk) 13:30, 24 February 2023 (CET)

Thanks! It is sometimes difficult to figure out exactly how the word is pronounced (which is why macrons should always be set). Jācōbus (talk) 13:34, 24 February 2023 (CET)

Summary: Word will be added.--Jācōbus (talk) 18:29, 25 March 2023 (CET)

Adrenaline

Proposal: Adrēnālīnum

Reason: The latin Wikipedia actually uses this word, but the evidence is quite weak. Therefore, I want to propose the word here. The Latin root ad + rēn is obvious. Jācōbus (talk) 13:42, 24 February 2023 (CET)

According to the lexicon morganianum it’s adrēnalīnum. Logodaedalus (talk) 14:10, 24 February 2023 (CET)

Is it? That's weird, since the adjective is rēnālis with long a. But I don't know, if it gets shortened, when combined with -īnum. (Probably not, but I will look that up). Jācōbus (talk) 14:24, 24 February 2023 (CET)

I have looked that up. According to § 16c) Kühner/Stegmann It is very rare for a vowel to be shortened within a stem when a suffix is added. This happens mostly when the accent shifts (e.g. molestus from mōlēs). So I think that's a mistake on Morgan's part, because there's no reason why the A in rēnālis should be shortened. Jācōbus (talk) 18:40, 24 February 2023 (CET)

Summary: Word will be added.--Jācōbus (talk) 18:29, 25 March 2023 (CET)

Zombie

Proposal: zombiēs, zombiēī

Reason: Zombie is a difficult word. We should preferably translate this word into Latin exactly as it is rendered in most languages, because this is a specific word from mythology. Since very few words in Latin end in -e (with the exception of Greek loanwords), I suggest zombiēs by analogy with faciēs or diēs. The Vicipaedia uses zombi (indecl.), but that is their own invention and not widely used. I discussed this with @Lukas and we couldn't think of anything better. Jācōbus (talk) 14:46, 4 March 2023 (CET)

Wouldn’t zombius be more accurate? May I also suggest vēmortuus, a neologism coined by the latinist Thomas Vulpius? Logodaedalus (talk) 15:23, 4 March 2023 (CET)

Vēmortuus would be the word for "undead", but as I said: Zombie is - as far as I know - a mythical creature coming from Haiti. So I think it's inappropriate to use such a vague paraphrase, do you know what I mean? It is like calling Jupiter "deus caelī". Zombius sounds pretty good, though. Jācōbus (talk) 17:48, 4 March 2023 (CET)

Summary: Word will be added.--Jācōbus (talk) 18:29, 25 March 2023 (CET)

Minced meat

Proposal: carō concīsa

Reason: To my surprise, there is no Latin word for minced meat, at least I did not find any in my dictionaries; so this is my suggestion which is straightforward, I guess. Jācōbus (talk) 22:02, 6 March 2023 (CET) Summary: Word will be added.--Jācōbus (talk) 18:29, 25 March 2023 (CET)